|
Post by Malky(Admin) on Sept 17, 2010 19:07:34 GMT
Guys i just want to open this topic up for discussion, so dont panic....yet!!! ;D
discussing things to do with the game etc helps get the forum board going
right i want to hear your thoughts on players skill ratings and the area that concerns me most keepers
my question is what happens to the game in my opinion soon when keepers are reaching skill 40 etc..
because when this happens its only natural cause its a game of numbers that the goals will dry up and no one will be able to score against teams with these skilled players, so we will get 0-0 games and 1-0 games all the time
id say keepers progress faster than any other position so skill 40's might not be as far off as we think,
alot of managers are now scouting youth players under 17 for the long term of there teams, these players are coming out ie skill 15,16..so they are going to take a good 5 seasons to break into 1st team squads, other scouted players are coming out skill 23 at best, so even at that how many times in 10 shots will a skill 23 score against a skill 40 keeper?
so my discussion for you would be, what is the solution? should keepers be capped when they reach a certain skill? should there skill start to drop when they reach a certain age?
i dont want this 'problem' to creep up on up and not have anything in place, so id rather talk about fixes now!!!
|
|
|
Post by Chris@Bayern Munich on Sept 17, 2010 19:14:19 GMT
Just an idea
But how about in real life when a GK hits around 32 or so maybe he stops receiving abbs maybe.
Or maybe once he has hit say 35 or 36 rating he stops receiving abbs and is capped.
This is a tricky one
I think malky has to do what's best for the game
|
|
|
Post by scott on Sept 17, 2010 19:54:32 GMT
One thing I do feel, if a decision is made, we need to have a min of 2 seasons notice as its such a big decision.
I think in recent seasons important decisions have been made with no real notice dramtically affecting peoples long term plans for their teams.
Regading the topic, the only sensible way to really know would be to test run a hell of a lot of games to get stone wall answers. Would be easy to do if somebody had a spare hour or so (if i remember right!)
Without the test data, id be tempted to say leave them, surely its only a matter of time befor ethey "cap themselves" when they reach a level where abs per save is less than their rating and they start recieving negative abs. (think this happened in pbemff?)
|
|
|
Post by gazza on Sept 17, 2010 20:40:58 GMT
Cap Keepers at between 22-25, not too sure what the right balance should be.
Any keepers in your team that lose their main skill points could spread the points lost across other squad members, and ability points gained on keepers over the 'new' capped skill rating could be banked till end of season and spread across squad members the same way donation points are used.
I want to see attractive games with lots of goals passes and tackles, but agree that super keepers are bogging the game down a little at the moment.
I haven't given it a lot of thought, but my idea jumped into my head, its open for discussion and hopefully one of many ideas, no doubt better will surface.
Good bad or indifferent, it's my tuppence worth.
|
|
|
Post by garfy on Sept 17, 2010 21:22:12 GMT
Easy enough. Pick a skill and cap keepers at that. A same idea could be used for all players
|
|
|
Post by johnraggett on Sept 18, 2010 7:03:01 GMT
Easy enough. Pick a skill and cap keepers at that. A same idea could be used for all players Would we not end up with everyone having pretty much the same team ability wise? Is it just not a matter of changing teh abs awarded? Say for every goal conceded they lose 100 abs, or the likes of, I've always said keepers in less successful teams get rewarded so much more than others.
|
|
|
Post by trulskaare on Sept 18, 2010 8:46:50 GMT
I think John might be onto something there. More rewards for clean sheets and minus points for conceding.
|
|
|
Post by scott on Sept 18, 2010 9:26:53 GMT
but this isnt going to stop the best in the game from growing, it will just stop the weaker keepers in weaker teams from catching up
|
|
|
Post by trulskaare on Sept 18, 2010 10:14:45 GMT
Very true, and it'll be unfair on teams who haven't been able to build a keeper.
|
|
|
Post by gazza on Sept 18, 2010 11:27:00 GMT
My idea would let teams with weaker keepers catch up.
Agree that only Keepers should be capped, that way when strikers improve we will get more goals and more exciting games, but as it stands people could say that results are more realistic.
You can't win i'm afraid !
|
|
|
Post by garfy on Sept 18, 2010 12:25:39 GMT
John my idea was for extreme players - like Van Nistelrooy and Lloris. Cap them at - say 36GK 32FW- this number is way in excess of most players ever reaching it and we will not get a team of similar statted players, just stop the excesses of youth running away in older years.
Or abs could be lost per game in the formula SKILL - AGE X 10 = LOST ABS
ie 32yo 29 Skill GK and 20yo 35skill GK
32yo = 29-32 x 10 = -30 (no lost abs) 20yo = 35-20 x 10 = 150 (lots of abs down)
Bit extreme I know but you get the idea (I think)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2010 12:55:14 GMT
First and foremost the problem occurred when Steve came into the game and complained about scores being unrealistic, hence keepers abs went up which created high end keepers! Now you need to reconize the source of the problem before you fix it!
I for one was against it, as I thought keepers would progress naturally and in line with all other players! In fact I thought the problem was with defenders more than anything!
Secondly I will try to give my opinion or suggestion as fair as I possibly can, even though I have the most to loose by this!
You can not start dishing out negative abs, as keepers will not progress at all, simple as that really.
Capping players was only necessary to prevent youth keepers gaining to much to quick! and you can not cap a keeper when he hits a high end skill or stop abs completely or even share them out! As eventually all keepers will all end up the same level across the board which is totally unrealistic and keepers will just have extremely no value at all!
Now as Scott says a lot of testing needs to be done to establish what level keepers become a real problem? to a point there dictating a game! Once that level is established then you need to do more testing to find out a lower level where keepers are virtually inaffective, then even more testing, to find what you call a happy medium!
you do at some point need to take in concideration of other players also? like Van the man etc as they will need looked at also!
But generally, providing all of above is done? You just roll back all keepers to a level that is acceptable, so top keepers will still be top keepers and lower keepers will still be lower just all at a different rating! (some outfield players also) Then compensate teams with the lost abs! Take away youth bonuses for goal keepers for a few seasons to settle the game and put caps in place for all players to prevent super players being developed!
That it really?
Personally! The whole reason I have Lloris and a young low rated team was to develope a team that was virtually impossible to score against and solid enough to win games! If we never changed things in the first place there wouldn't be a problem but we took advice from an outside source and copied a game that had the exact same problem! Stupid really! By rolling all players back and put in caps etc where just going back to the way things where but hopefully a lot wiser for it?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2010 14:12:52 GMT
However what approach we take there is also the fact we need to be very carefull when making changes as the knock on effect could be a serious one?
If we change the keepers some how, it's safe to say forwards will do more and progress quicker! or mids could have greater impact on games etc etc
it all needs to be looked at closely!
|
|
|
Post by johnraggett on Sept 18, 2010 16:48:16 GMT
but this isnt going to stop the best in the game from growing, it will just stop the weaker keepers in weaker teams from catching up It was more to stop managers abusing the rules in the reserves, it's common knowledge that teams play to allow maximum shots at their keepers in the reserves. Rewarding teams for clean sheets rather than activity would change the mindset of some if not most managers trying to take advantage of this. Okay Chelsea benifited from a first team keeper progressing due to first team results (Cech) but what other team have done? Only reserve keepers are progressing at crazy rates, some averaging 150 abs a game which is just mental. Then add end of season bonuses and your talking 3 maybe 4 stat increase a season. A defender is very lucky if he goes up 1 on a good season.
|
|
|
Post by garfy on Sept 18, 2010 16:56:07 GMT
Andie I have ran some tests.
GK skill from 37 up to 42, ten games each skill
GK stops conceding at all at skill 40! GK concedes 5 goals at skill 39, 3 at 38, 6 at 37
Dont know what that proves, but used my first team from last match and ran it against itself just adjusted the keeper in the home team skill.
|
|