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Post by Malky(Admin) on Aug 22, 2021 11:21:36 GMT
Hi Lads
I thought i'd open this tread to get some discussion/thoughts going forward with the game into season 33, i feel we may be at a cross roads which some may have even predicted a while ago, as always i try and make changes to the game that will make it enjoyable but also make it continue for seasons to come, some i get right and some i get wrong, i have added multiple options to try and make managers personalize there clubs to what type of manager they are
giving you options to expand your stadium, grow a build a successful training academy, build a team of high skilled players or bring through your own youth players, expanded league and FA Cups to include group stages which in turn create extra games and extra revenue
included the intercontinental cup for clubs who don't always feature in the later stages of cups and again miss out on much needed revenue and success
What that does but is make players increase faster as they play more games per season, for an example Bayern Munich who won the double in season one, there players played maximum 17 games
fast forward to last season and successful clubs are now playing up to 36 games per season which is more than double season 1, throw into the mix end of season bonuses for players 21 and under and the current rules around training academies where players stats are multiplied by 5, 9, 11, 13 and 15 depending on the level of there academy, plus donations on players RESTRICTION BEING NO DONATION CAN BE MADE ON A PLAYER WHO'S AGE TO SKILL GAP IS 10
So i feel ahead of next season we must unfortunately look at the above and work out the best way forward, i will make a list of the key areas which MUST be addressed before the new season starts, so the more discussion the better to nail things down, i think if we do this now we will be in a stronger position to see the game run for many more seasons
1. Outfield player max skill (ie cap) lets all try and remember this is a game of numbers, a skill 45 forward shooting into a skill 29 keeper is going to start throwing up laughable scores, or what if a manager doesn't sheet and you play against a T tactic, this type of forward could score 20 goals in one game, at the moment i am still happy with our keepers being capped at skill 39, but i think as a game we have to have a maximum skill cap allowed in the game for outfield players, we need to make sure players in influential areas are looked at, we know Keepers and Forwards are the two key areas, at the moment Celtic FC have Howedes a skill 38 defender who has 38 key tackles this season, the number one defender in the Elite League is P_Livingstone Aston Villa with 52 who is a skill 34 so we can see Howedes isn't making a massive difference despite his high skill
Draxler a skill 36 midfielder for Santos FC tops the charts with 81 passes and 10 assists again history shows on 5 out of 32 seasons in the Elite League has a midfielder had over 100 passes in a season and the top assists in a season stands at 14
so IMO we have to look at a maximum skill cap for outfield players of 40, if you create a player who hits 40 and is only 25 years of age then you will have a top player for around 10 seasons
2. Donations, the rule i introduced donating on players range age to skill gap being 10 was a poor decision, this along with everything i have mentioned above with amount of games, EOS bonuses with current Training Academy rules with just wrong, this needs looked at and reduced again, used to be age to skill 3
3. Training Academies, i'd like to look at the whole purpose of these again and what they give to each club, a level 4 at the moment gives clubs 7 scout missions and x 15 end of season bonuses on players 21 and under.
4. Scouts, should these stay random, the luck of the draw, or should we be guaranteed better youth depended on the level of Training Academy we have at our club ie
Level 0 - age to skill = same ie Forward01 age 17 main skill 17 Level 1 - age to skill = + 1 ie Forward02 age 18 main skill 19 Level 2 - age to skill = + 2 ie Forward03 age 18 main skill 20 Level 3 - age to skill = + 3 ie Forward04 age 17 main skill 20 Level 4 - age to skill = + 4 ie Forward05 age 18 main skill 22
Each club starts off with 3 scouts which they can scout any age and any position, but if you have a training academy level 1-4 the extra scouts must be scouted aged 21 and under!!!
5. End of season bonuses, is 5, 9, 11, 13 & 15 too excessive, this is contributing to the fast increase of players, should end of season bonuses be reduced or should end of season bonuses be awarded to players 17-19 so reduced to the first 3 seasons instead of 5, should a 21 year old still be getting high bonuses when we are seeing some hit skill 30 and above this season?
So as you can see plenty to chat about, all the above contribute to the fast increases in players, i know we all love to build players fast to become starting 11 players but we can't have the game crashing to a halt in the process if we get it right now we can go into next season all knowing what we have in place and how it will effect each club going forward
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Post by Andy @ schalke on Aug 22, 2021 12:34:41 GMT
I think guaranteeing better academies better players would compound the issue. Unless it was in place of the eos bonus. But seems like the bonus is what an academy wld give you in real life. Maybe a development factor that reduces with age wld be more life like. Players should prob start to get worse when they hit 30. Or at least stop improving. Possibly a different value based on the league the abs are earned in too. From elite right down to div 2 reserves. Possibky hard for the game to trackš¤·āāļø #thinkingoutloud
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Post by Adrian (Arsenal) on Aug 22, 2021 16:26:17 GMT
Malky you make some really good points. I had a couple of thoughts:
1) Remove T-Tactic for no teamsheet - team plays 442N with the best 11 players available and if they get a point or a win they get those points deducted. That way a missed teamsheet doesnt automatically give the opposition a massive win.
2) Agree with a skill cap. Based on what you are seeing for DF and MF does it need to be different based on position.
3) Do we need to make players age more realistically? In this game every player improves every season until they retire. Just an example but can we set the game up to be more realistic. e.g. Can we stop players getting better 3 seasons before they retire and then in their final 2 years they lose 1 off their main skill?
4) Donations have gone too far - could we compromise? 5?
5) Those we invested in an academy need to be rewarded long term. When they were first brought in people made big investments and it feels like with the new scouts they have been devalued. For me I support a way to address this balance. e.g. the better academy you have the better youth scouts you get
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Post by Andy @ schalke on Aug 22, 2021 17:09:10 GMT
Malky you make some really good points. I had a couple of thoughts: 1) Remove T-Tactic for no teamsheet - team plays 442N with the best 11 players available and if they get a point or a win they get those points deducted. That way a missed teamsheet doesnt automatically give the opposition a massive win. 2) Agree with a skill cap. Based on what you are seeing for DF and MF does it need to be different based on position. 3) Do we need to make players age more realistically? In this game every player improves every season until they retire. Just an example but can we set the game up to be more realistic. e.g. Can we stop players getting better 3 seasons before they retire and then in their final 2 years they lose 1 off their main skill? 4) Donations have gone too far - could we compromise? 5? 5) Those we invested in an academy need to be rewarded long term. When they were first brought in people made big investments and it feels like with the new scouts they have been devalued. For me I support a way to address this balance. e.g. the better academy you have the better youth scouts you get That T sheet point is a goodun. 2nd that.
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Post by Dillon (OSA) on Aug 22, 2021 20:08:03 GMT
Think it's really interesting for the game right now as there's a lot of issues and stuff that we've addressed prior also. The game does need to evolve, but there can be positives taken from removing stuff to encourage people to do other things like transfers as the prime way of building a squad, as in my opinion, it created a lot more activity and excitement in the game.
"1. Outfield player max skill (ie cap)" "2. Donations"
I would agree that there needs to be something done about rapid growth of players beyond what we've seen before but doing too much at once can have a much worse effect. IMO reducing the donations on youths may get rid of a lot of the hard snowballing that we see in youth players. For example: Mbappe at Barca - 17yo 20FW gains 2325 EOS abs and ends up 18yo 24.324 FW with abs gained during the season which is fine in terms of having super youths in the game (which is healthy as long as they are rare 1-3 per season over all clubs at most). Then he gains 1905 EOS abs (less shots and goals than previous season and still in reserve football) to go to 19yo 26.258 which is again fine and in line with a super youth you'd expect. If I'm reading it correctly though he is donated on in Season 29 when the donation rules were relaxed and starts the season at 19yo 27.258 which at this point is equivalent to almost 47% of his average EOS abs from reserve football (the highest area you'd expect him to gain from). Due to a higher skill rating he performs better in the league and ends up with 2385 EOS abs in his first 1st team campaign and goes into Season 30 20yo 30.247 FW where he goes beyond super youth into monster territory. The issue for these players in the past used to be getting past the initial 23-29 ratings where teams would suffer playing them or would be forced to pay big to loan them out, but with donations we're now able to skip this phase for youths which previously would cost them 3-5 seasons depending on abs and league they play in. In comparison Strok for me was 19 year old and 24.6, but with x15 abs would've been 19yo 25.5 FW, 26.5 with donations. Just purely for the sake of an example, you could say these players would be very similar if created in the same season, whereas the difference in donations and EOS abs sees Strok sitting at 27yo 31.561 FW which in previous times would've been considered a very highly rated player. Mbappe however sits at 22yo 36.744 as he had the ability to bypass the mid 20 ratings with donations allowing EOS to snowball into bigger numbers.
How do you fix that? There's a few options but removing all at once may have the opposite effect and leave players like Mbappe/Anderson/Thanatos/Taliyah/Bergwijn/Anelka/Dybala/Sarr as unsolvable problems as too many teams have these unobtainable players and instantly it's impossible for other teams to compete. I don't think there's an easy solution to this problem without compromises being made, without them we're likely committing to 15 seasons of players who hit the skill caps and will never be sold/traded. Then there's teams who didn't get a chance to build these players who can't begin to play catch up.
I don't think a skill cap is the answer as it's always nice to have an open ceiling and allow players to strive to become the 'best ever' and emulate the legendary names like Tabata. For me, slowing the progress of players through re-limiting donations back down to +2-+5 on age to allow players to balance out and catch up on some of the super youths without being too powerful. Dragging the EOS abs back at the same time may be too much but possibly reducing the EOS age by 1 year could minimalise the power they have to grow in their last season at a higher rating than before. Another option would be to reintroduce the youth skill cap, but this time have it that any player receiving EOS abs (17-20 in this instance) cannot exceed 10 skill points from their age. So 20 year old 30 would be the cap for EOS youths. Even 7 or 8 skill points would work too as once the 'cap lifts' they receive those EOS abs and fly forward a bit more. An alternative would be no cap but if they go past that point they don't receive their EOS abs. So a 20 29.999 would receive EOS abs but a 20 30.001 would not, and there would be no cap stopping them from passing that point.
Discussions would need to be had about removing or reducing some of the current youths who are going to run away with the game soon, purely in the interests of the health of the game and longevity. I can only think of one time prior when it has happened, and it would be with goalkeepers and Lloris who had to be removed at the time.
"3. Training Academies"
A possible change to training academies could be to turn the focus away from EOS abs and instead offering % boosts flat on abs in game. I'm not entirely sure this would be an easy thing to code into the game however, but in theory it could go from 5/10/15/20% extra abs per game. At the top end of the scale, a rare 100abs gain from a game would instead return 120abs. An average gain tends to be around 40-60 per game so would end up at 48-72 at maximum level. Over the course of the season this translates to about 240-360 extra abs on first team players per an average 30 game season. That along with EOS abs being reduced by 1 or 2 on each level probably brings things into a safer spot in terms of growth whilst allowing training academies to become a dual focused 1st team and youth option potentially.
"4. Scouts"
I think the introduction of first team players in scouts has led to a lot of issues when it comes to activity within the game. Making deals used to be the primary way to build a squad as people always needed cash for upgrades, or first team stars for a league or cup push and the other side of it had youths for long term rebuilds. Whatever you needed, you had to go to someone else and make it happen. The game was always active and everyone was talking trying to sort deals. A big shift in that mentality came with scouts, we then had very affordable first team players (this was addressed in recent seasons) and the need to go to other sides, make compromises and deals was gone. You just had to wait for the start of the season. The idea of a better academy granting better scouts is in theory a decent idea, but it would need to be balanced through a big pullback on the level of scouts available. It also prompts the idea of potentially another buyable upgrade section for clubs, training academies focus on the abs and player growth side of things whilst a new buyable 'Scouting Network' could allow for more scouts being out, and better scoutable quality returning. Being able to buy a first team starter out of scouts should be equally as rare as getting a 17/20 youth scout. That should be both sides of the coin's grand prize. On average there are 5 scouts per club to 36 clubs, so around 180 scouts per season. Just from the top of my head the best of the best should come around at most 5/180 just to provide ample stimulation for the market. Youth scouts should provide more dependable and reliable 'potential' first team candidates at the expense of spending many seasons growing them. Gaining a first team ready scout should be rare and a gamble to go for. Even having scouts split up into Youth/First Team as your two options instead of age. The game being that you get anyone from 21-36, whilst youth providing 16-20 year olds. Position select could be refined into GK/DF/MF/FW and secondaries be randomised.
In my eyes, the best that should come out of a first team scout should be 26yo 29 in a rare circumstance at that 5/180 (2.78% chance). Adjusted ages could be varied such as 21yo 25/26 who still needs to develop and doesn't have EOS abs to rely on but a youth player who's sunk cost comes in seasons spent growing should come out better if grown in the best possible way. Older players could end up being 33yo 31/32, 35yo 34/35 rated. The other side of it could throw out worse players like 30 year old 27 as a mid tier alternative and a poor scout being the same as we have now in the likes of 23 23s, 30 24s etc. Bad scouts should stay in the system and should be part of the random nature of scouts.
If we slow the rate at which higher rated players come into the game, and focus on development and deals rather than ready made players, I feel as though the game will be far healthier and more balanced.
"Remove T-Tactic for no teamsheet - team plays 442N with the best 11 players available and if they get a point or a win they get those points deducted. That way a missed teamsheet doesnt automatically give the opposition a massive win." - an alternative could be a forfeit for T tactic, just impose a 3-0 win for the team who sheeted and their players gain 50 abs to main skill across the board for starting XI with 3 saves/tackles/passes/shots. There's not much of a fair way to approach missed sheets as every side has an argument for losing out on things others gained, a blanket approach to remove the randomness of it should probably allow clarity of sheets etc. T sheets do tend to be rare with only a few per season also.
"Do we need to make players age more realistically? In this game every player improves every season until they retire. Just an example but can we set the game up to be more realistic. e.g. Can we stop players getting better 3 seasons before they retire and then in their final 2 years they lose 1 off their main skill?"
For me this feels like too much of a change to the game. With players hitting a peak and retiring it's possibly not realistic but is an iconic/integral part of the game where you're able to make a lot more speculative deals. It would definitely change a large part of the game's dynamic but who knows how it could end up?
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Post by pom on Aug 23, 2021 6:19:22 GMT
Dillon reads the game very well as i do - he has some very good points here and also points i disagree with as well
It was a long read as well and i will address my opinions in time - obviously sorting problems is going to be hard
But the first thing which came into my head was the super forwards and comparing to the real super FWD *** P_McGowan ***
This is just an idea - REMEMBER THAT - when you shoot me down
Dillons paragraph on - How do you fix that ?
Is probably the most important aspect of keeping the Elite League going in the future as Dillon states there will be unobtainable players end of ...
( a few select teams who were at the time of the rule changes able to take advantage - depending entirely on what they were doing at the time )
/ some rebuilding / others developing youths in the lower divisions / some totally revamped squads to take advantage of the new rules / some great management who could compete & develop / some who could compete and not develop
And so on cuz there were just too many rule changes each season that if you were in the right place at the right time you were sorted...
( Malky's 'MISTAKES" of making the game better - only as Malky stated himself !!! )
( we all vented our opinions at the time as we all know - some agreed and others didn't )
Right back to my idea ..
Does Everyone agree that P_Mcgowan that when he started he was the scout we all developed
P_McGowan 17 sco 2 7 7 20 16 300 989 182 175 12 1 872 2 0 0 4 3 65 7 1 10 0 0 100
I did it with Stan_Matthews - Eusebio - took over BAR from Celtic which Rags developed at a massive cost - it's all relevant
********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Right so the idea is ------------- that cuz P_McGowan is now 40 rated and at the end of his career and is the best FWD ever - and you can see the damage he does (example turned Valencia from a nobody to title team in one season)
Is that we use P_McGowan as the rule ...
That when :::
P_McGowan was 28 years old his skill rating was 33 P_McGowan was 30 years old his skill rating was 35 P_McGowan was 31 years old his skill rating was 36 etc:
Why not use P_McGowan as the bench mark on age v skill - so all the super stars that the game has created can't exceed P_McGowan age to skill level
So the Mbappe's / Anelka's and all the others who have reached and are above the skill level are stalled in the development until age catches up with them ...
YES - i can see alarm bells from all the managers who have these players - even though they have players who are way above P_McGowan's threshold and will have to stay on the the same skill till P_McGowan's stats catch up ---------- but they still get a 40 rated player by retirement FFS!!!
These teams will have to be compensated defo - and thats a whole different conversation
But you asked for a solution for the young superstars who were created to the rules and WILL eventually ruin the overall game - so i've given you the fisrt one !!!
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Post by bruffio on Aug 23, 2021 7:40:20 GMT
I agree with most of what's written here so far maybe also an financial penalty added to the t-sheet like 200k for failing to sheet, BUT there is another problem not mentioned here and in my opinion is the new manager. We want to entice new managers into the game and managers with the so called super youths/players tend to stay at their club longer with their built up squads however they achieved it does not matter, but when your trying to entice someone into the game and the squads available are dregs compared to the more successful clubs and there seems no pathway to compete. The gulf is TOO BIG top to bottom we need to readdress this as I feel its better to have al teams managed but I don't know what you'd do to fix it but in my mind its an issue. Now the super youths as a manager that has one or two the only thing ill say is that if something is done to them(and I'm not against it) like for instance say my Thanatos who will end the season as a 22year old 35 rated forward, If say you thought he shouldn't be higher than 32 rated and penalise him 3 skill points the manager should probably get them abs back to redistribute amongst his team, meaning that work put in is not a total waste. just a thought. actually as an after thought id go to say if you got the 3000 abs returned you could make a rule saying on 66% can go on main abs the rest secondary and so on
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Post by pom on Aug 23, 2021 7:54:58 GMT
I agree with most of what's written here so far maybe also an financial penalty added to the t-sheet like 200k for failing to sheet, BUT there is another problem not mentioned here and in my opinion is the new manager. We want to entice new managers into the game and managers with the so called super youths/players tend to stay at their club longer with their built up squads however they achieved it does not matter, but when your trying to entice someone into the game and the squads available are dregs compared to the more successful clubs and there seems no pathway to compete. The gulf is TOO BIG top to bottom we need to readdress this as I feel its better to have al teams managed but I don't know what you'd do to fix it but in my mind its an issue. Now the super youths as a manager that has one or two the only thing ill say is that if something is done to them(and I'm not against it) like for instance say my Thanatos who will end the season as a 22year old 35 rated forward, If say you thought he shouldn't be higher than 32 rated and penalise him 3 skill points the manager should probably get them abs back to redistribute amongst his team, meaning that work put in is not a total waste. just a thought. actually as an after thought id go to say if you got the 3000 abs returned you could make a rule saying on 66% can go on main abs the rest secondary and so on That readjustment idea is actually a great idea in the making - cuz i was thinking how the hell do you compensate the clubs but also fair to everyone else It could work - but off the top of my head it would never be close to a 1 to 1 abs readjustment
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John
Youth Player
Everton
Posts: 468
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Post by John on Aug 23, 2021 8:33:33 GMT
Agree with a lot of the ideas deffo the abs be given back
One thing I think the game need is the prize money being upāed, scouts have gone up in money, players cost more yet prize is little to afford a decent player.
Also on this I believe the teams that win div1 & div2 need a fighting chance of staying up so money should be greater for winning these diversions plus the playoffs so they get a fight chance as normally the teams that come up go back down
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Post by Steve Brown on Aug 23, 2021 8:55:27 GMT
I believe removing the T sheet and replacing it with N would be a good idea. Then the result is as it is. More fair.
Capping players can work buy equally letting players naturally decline from a certain age works well too. This is more realistic.
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Post by pom on Aug 23, 2021 10:53:13 GMT
Malky - this is where you now need to come in and give your opinions on the conversation so far & add to the conversation cuz you started the thread and we all know where we have gone wrong
Remember at the moment we are all chucking in ideas
Malky - what are your ideas ?
What you think of the ideas above ?
Cuz without feedback we will never get (s h i t) sorted !!!
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Post by bigdan on Aug 23, 2021 16:07:43 GMT
That readjustment idea is actually a great idea in the making - cuz i was thinking how the hell do you compensate the clubs but also fair to everyone else It could work - but off the top of my head it would never be close to a 1 to 1 abs readjustment Do you mean you should get less than those abs back to redistribute, or more? It sounds OK to me - one player gets pulled back 3 skill points, three other players in the squad increase by 1 skill point each.
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Pierre
Youth Player
Posts: 236
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Post by Pierre on Aug 23, 2021 18:11:00 GMT
If I read the messages we has to ātalkā about: A-development of young players with training academy B-players who you can sign with scouting C-capping skills of players D-T-sheet when a manager is not sheeting
A-development of young players with training academy EOS bonuses With the new training academy structure players can gain abs very fast with EOS. You can change this by lowering the bonus abs (5/9/11/13/15) to (3/5/7/9/10) or something like that. The idea of Dillon is also a good posibility (with more % for higher academies), but I donāt know if itās possible to do in ESMS to give every team other % abs.
Donations Another thing players develop very fast is the donations. If you have a 17 year old player, you can donate 5 seasons on him, giving him a boost in his main skill of 5 points. If you do this with mutiple players, with some money every season you can build a very good core of players. I know last seasons there were some problems about how many players you can donate on and I donāt know the rule now, but you can also change this to get lesser development of playersā main skill. For example: You can choose to donate 500 abs on a players main skill or 1000 abs on a players second or third skill. That makes a different of 2.5 skillpoints for a 17 year old player.
You can also go back to former rule (no donations if a skill is 3 more than the age). People choose different options with their donation money. If Iām correct the purpose of donation money to EFL/Malky is to support the game, not to develop your players.
B-players who you can sign with scouting Like Dillon said, because of the new scout system managers wait until the EOS and buy a good scouted player. No interaction, no dealing with other managers etc. You could go back to the old scouting system, with lesser skilled players and only a few top players, which gives us more need to deal with eachother. Or you change it to something like an auction or draft or something where high training academies get higher change or something like that.
C-capping skills of players I like the idea of a cap to the players skill. This could be an age cap like Pom suggested or a hard cap like Malky said with 40. I like the idea to compensate the abs to other players when a player has hit the cap. So managers still gets a drive to play with high skilled players.
You could also do something different, like other ESMS games. In EFL we have hard abs for every goal etc. Every players gets the same amount of abs. In other games it works different. A player is getting abs which are subtracted with his skill. For example: a player is getting 40 abs for every goal, so a defender with 10 sh gets 40-10= 30 abs to his shooting skill and a forward with 30 sh gets 40-30=10 abs to his shooting skill. With this structure you get a soft cap, but no very good developed player anymore.
D-T-sheet when a manager is not sheeting I think a T-sheet isnāt fair for the competition. Itās not only a divadvantage for the non sheeted manager, but also a big advantage for the opponent. So 442N is better, but like Bruffio has said there has to be another disadvantage, like a fine of some money. Otherwise more managers will be non sheeting I think.
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Post by Malky(Admin) on Aug 24, 2021 17:14:05 GMT
Name Team Age Nat St Tk Ps Sh Ag KAb TAb PAb SAb T_O_Conner 22 eng 32 3 3 2 13 752 700 700 700 M_Balfor 21 sco 32 1 1 2 32 199 500 500 500 T_Macedo 21 eng 31 3 3 3 42 852 400 400 400 P_Gazzaniga 22 arg 31 1 2 3 40 276 800 800 800 P_Assure 20 sco 31 1 1 3 40 459 500 500 500
Mark_Robinson 21 eng 1 32 10 5 23 800 751 356 681 Bohte_Daisuke 21 jap 1 32 10 5 31 700 695 737 934 M_Rose Osasuna 21 eng 1 31 8 8 31 500 776 957 606 C_Irvine 21 usa 2 31 10 7 33 600 50 771 984
N_Chalobah 23 eng 2 8 31 5 24 500 1 753 202 Leda_Cygnus 23 jap 1 9 29 19 22 700 519 690 568 Bovan 20 isr 3 10 29 13 43 500 224 739 91 Luis_Figo 21 por 1 5 28 7 33 300 615 786 521 Aparichit 20 civ 3 5 28 17 12 700 295 941 416
K_Mbappe 22 fra 2 8 7 36 12 600 333 994 744 Thanatos 22 gre 3 9 5 34 22 800 598 589 893 Taliyah 22 eng 2 7 8 32 11 500 90 361 863 S_Bergwijn 21 hol 3 10 8 31 10 600 77 88 9 N_Anelka 23 fra 2 4 11 31 21 600 920 686 541 P_B_E_Dybala 20 arg 2 6 9 30 22 500 835 165 452 J_Cummings 24 sco 3 5 9 30 32 300 671 180 837 I_Sarr 20 sen 1 9 8 30 21 600 142 89 621 A_Anderson 19 can 3 6 10 30 22 400 858 388 301 L_Griffiths 24 sco 2 10 5 29 31 500 225 142 466 J_Willock 20 eng 2 10 8 29 23 600 301 383 336 H_Sanchez 22 mex 2 6 6 29 31 300 467 887 348 E_Collamarini 20 ita 1 5 9 29 31 700 779 479 61 D_Suker Everton 24 cro 1 6 12 28 31 300 711 652 809 A_Gray Schalke 22 eng 3 7 9 28 32 600 236 769 806 L_Riva 21 ita 1 10 6 27 42 800 317 312 950 Erling_Haland 21 nor 3 7 9 27 12 500 987 461 649
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Post by pom on Aug 25, 2021 10:14:05 GMT
And a list of all the young superstars adds to conversation HOW ?
Malky we need a little guidance or this will fizzle out as always
Are any ideas any good or should we focus on something else ...
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