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Post by trulskaare on Sept 18, 2014 8:56:31 GMT
I'm surprised Tone didn't play one of the DMs as a defender considering he'd only put five at the back. As DMs with L tactic, they play at 75% of their skill TK, so 18 rather than 24. With the L tactic, midfielders are virtually worthless with 40% passing for DMs and 50% for MFs. That means these DMs combined added 9.6 passing. I understand both arguments, but I prefer a more liberal approach where managers are free to get the best out of their team. In my opinion there's nothing wrong with what Tone has done.
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Post by bigdan on Sept 18, 2014 9:15:59 GMT
I'm with Scott, there's nothing in the rules to say that this is wrong. If there is a rule that you must play highest primary skill in the corresponding position, then that needs to go into the rulebook. Personally I think that Newcastle have still been lucky in this game - if you look at the tactics table, with L you get very reduced MF contribution, so I'm amazed that United even managed to get 40% possession.
Malky you say that we're all trying to stamp this out, but in 5 seasons or so of EFL I don't remember it ever being discussed. You say that managers are playing FWs as AMs - what's wrong with that? In real life you can take an out and out striker and play him in the hole instead. Or you can take a winger and play him as a target man. To me this just makes the game more challenging, the top teams can't just assume that skill will win the game, they have to predict the other manager's tactics and use conditionals to change things around. We're always talking about the big teams becoming unbeatable, well to me anything that gives the likes of Newcastle a chance against the likes of Real is good for the game.
Apologies if this has all been agreed before. But there are a lot of new managers in the game now, so if this is a rule then it needs to be made clear to everyone. Meanwhile, no doubt St James's is already sold out for the return leg.
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Post by pezza @ Marseille on Sept 18, 2014 9:22:09 GMT
what the $^?" is going on with this game at the moment?
how the hell as Tone done anything wrong here?
1. Players have NO POSITIONS in esms, just stats that dictate their skills to contribute to each action 2. He was trying to WIN the game, or at least not LOSE, which was what the last ridiculous over sensitive issue was about. 3. It WORKED! He got a replay away to the best team in the game! If he'd lost 10-0 then fair enough, it didn't work and you could say he was trying to lose the game. 4. Defenders, in certain formations work well as DM's, and attackers as AM's, what's the problem? The rule is regarding the amount of players per position, not the amount of players you deem defenders throughout the side. 5. This on paper shouldn't really have worked as you don't get the full quota of DF skills playing them as DM, so actually had he played the same formation with "proper" DM's it should have worked better. The fact he tried this and it worked proves that he's trying to do best for his team.
Is this game turning in to a dictatorship? Shall we just all select 442 N and be done with it?
Honestly this is just a clever way to try and win a game of football, he has done nothing wrong at all and if he is punished in any way (or anyone else for playing players out of what you think is their natural position) then it's an absolute travesty and we may aswell just call it a day.
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neil
1st Team Regular
Honours: Div 3 Champions (S14 - Chelsea, S18 - Lyon)
Posts: 557
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Post by neil on Sept 18, 2014 9:36:08 GMT
My personal opinion is that Tone hasn't done anything wrong.
I agree with Harry in that the game is based on numbers and all skills are factored anyway so he didn't try to cheat the game, he just played very defensively. Crazy, ill-advised, miracle? Yes. But not sure what's done wrong and as Harry said the only rule he appears to have broken is not to play a MF...although not sure this is a crime if he's played DM's and AM's.
I am the biggest defender of Malky's rules and how they cannot possibly be written to cover every eventuality. But as i say, i don't think he tried to cheat the game. Beyond newcastle i'm not sure playing FW's as AM's is a crime either if thats what a manager wants to do.
The key point for me is that...As long as whatever tactic/formation is chosen is to try to win the game/get the best result for your team!
If Tone was trying to lose the game and played DF's in AM or MF's up front that is different. Tone went for a result and got one. Fair play in my book.
I agree with Dan, Pezza and for once, to my great surprise...Scott! ;-)
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Post by gazza on Sept 18, 2014 9:36:39 GMT
Put your handbags away girls, 'dictatorship' and managers being 'crucified' ?..... Really !
Newcastle's set up is nothing like the Spurs set up the other week, Tone has set up an awkward looking team and has committed no criminal offence, please don't call the cyber police !
Ahmed your still in the competition, suck it in man, I am sure you will get the result next game, I'd put my money on it.
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Post by Levi (TTH) on Sept 18, 2014 9:52:40 GMT
Agree with the others that this isn't wrong. The game shouldn't just be about who can collect the highest skilled players.
If it's not desired it can be discouraged by adjusting tactics tables and position maximums and minimums.
Also, specifically after clarification on S_Perotta, because I did plan as playing him at FW when we went with P tactics.
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Post by pezza @ Marseille on Sept 18, 2014 9:59:09 GMT
I wouldn't play Perotta as a FW, can't see that working BUT if you choose to do it then it should be your decision and nobody else's.
I wouldn't have played DF's ans DM's either because i wouldn't have thought it'd work, but it has, so i'd consider that in future if i was playing a top team.
Nobody will be telling me how i can and cannot set my team up, i play to a) win and b) develop my young players, and whilst i'm manager here i will be sticking to those principles.
I'd consider playing players out of their natural position if i felt it would benefit my team, and i don't see any reason to outlaw this.
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Post by Ahmed@Real on Sept 18, 2014 10:14:04 GMT
Put your handbags away girls, 'dictatorship' and managers being 'crucified' ?..... Really ! Newcastle's set up is nothing like the Spurs set up the other week, Tone has set up an awkward looking team and has committed no criminal offence, please don't call the cyber police ! Ahmed your still in the competition, suck it in man, I am sure you will get the result next game, I'd put my money on it. It is not about I win or not, but there is should be a line what we could do and what we are not, we cant punish some managers because they had a very bad result and it is fine with another manager because they had a good result, what is the case if I win 10-0 sure that will not be fair as well, In any case, maybe I am wrong and the managers need more freedom to do what they think is better for them team even if they loss 15-0
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Post by gazza on Sept 18, 2014 10:23:36 GMT
The spurs team that lost 15-0 was just ridiculous though Ahmed, Newcastle have actually pulled of the result, spurs set up to lose heavily, which was a bit baffling
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Post by andieglen on Sept 18, 2014 10:26:01 GMT
Over the seasons, I have seen Tabatta playing as a DM, RVN playing as an AM with only 2 passing (There's more examples) and no one has said anything??
For me this is a proper DM
A_Wisdom 27 eng 2 22 19 8
and this is a proper AM
P_Nedved 27 cze 1 6 22 21
But these players are in short supply and because the game is still young as far as player development then I think it's perfectly acceptable to have players with a second skill of at least 10 playing in those positions.
IE G_Rodriguez 24 spa 1 21 10 9 - DF/DM - (not a MF/FW) M_Izzet 29 fra 2 10 24 7 - DM/MF - (not a DF/FW) A_Griffin 31 ire 2 9 22 10 - MF/AM - (not a DF/FW) R_Sharp 21 eng 3 5 10 22 - AM/FW - (not a DF/MF)
As far as the tactic table is concerned, when you look at it properly it does actually tell you what players are needed where! IE L: DM [0.75, 0.40, 0.50] is basically saying a DM with superior tackling is best.
It all depends on what you class as a DM??
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John
Youth Player
Everton
Posts: 468
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Post by John on Sept 18, 2014 10:36:22 GMT
This completely different to the Tottenham old manager that lost 15-0!!
Newcastle didn't put GK as FW or DF's as FW and MF!! he set his team up to win personally I congratulate him!
I set my team up against Lyon with 5-1-0-1-3 again no MF but why is this a problem?? I wanted one of my MF to hold back and play DM and the other support the FW's by playing AM as my tactic was L
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Post by tone on Sept 18, 2014 10:50:34 GMT
I will not apologise for the way i set my team up i got the result i wanted in fact i think the last time i played real madrid, i played 1-5-2-0-2-1 L and got a result i was acused of not playing middies which caused an upraw, as DM AND AM are classed as middies i wasnt in the wrong
This time i used defenders as DM'S as they have a higher secondaries dont see the problem
if anyone want me to replay the game then its fine by me but when i get a result dont come crying and if i do get the real should give up have his gate money. if i get beat then i will give him his bummy back
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Post by Malky(Admin) on Sept 18, 2014 10:52:28 GMT
I will not apologise for the way i set my team up i got the result i wanted in fact i think the last time i played real madrid, i played 1-5-2-0-2-1 L and got a result i was acused of not playing middies which caused an upraw, as DM AND AM are classed as middies i wasnt in the wrong This time i used defenders as DM'S as they have a higher secondaries dont see the problem if anyone want me to replay the game then its fine by me but when i get a result dont come crying and if i do get the real should give up have his gate money. if i get beat then i will give him his bummy back his bummy back! you planning on raping him again?
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Post by tone on Sept 18, 2014 11:02:37 GMT
yer spelling is s**t lol trying to type this on the sly im at work
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Post by winzor @ Porto on Sept 18, 2014 12:27:55 GMT
Sorry but I fail to see what is wrong with this............
nothing more than Ahmed throwing his toys out the pram. Even I would not have moaned about someone playing a DF who has half decent passing as an DM against me, would be disappointed in the manager feeling the need to though tbh.
Like stated by others.......... this is in no way the same type of ridiculous thing that the Spurs manager did the other week.
if you can not decide to play a DF as a DM or a FW as a AM it is silly, DM is the position between defence and midfield so surely a mid or def can play there? I do not see managers moaning at managers using players with 5 or 6 defending on a middie in the DM role.
I think it was a risk that pulled off.
Well played Tone
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