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Post by Ahmed@Real on Jul 19, 2012 20:24:14 GMT
Loans in=3 and out = 5 (more realistic to have more choice do deal through the season and more active)
Youth Academy, I don’t think this is good idea and for sure will not help the lower Div
T-Tactic - Should removed and use N tactic instead, just to be fair to the other teams in the same league or cup because will be easy win for some and harder match for some, But Managers who don't sheet need to be punish. Perhaps we could be deduct 20 point from KAb, Tab, PAb and SAb for all his players, and the manager should be not allowed to miss more than three sheet ,
FA Cup Seeding – I agree with Bryn about that.
Attendance – I don’t think it is need to be change specially for lower Div because they need the cash more than the higher Div.
Play Off Spot – should be remove just not make since, we work hard all the season then one unlucky match could change everything.
Player Progression -
Keepers - I feel they're progressing at a steady rate now after the changes made this season, but if we think we have a problem in the future with them just deduct 10% from all the keeper in the league and that will be fair to everyone and we don’t treat it individual (that will not be fair), and we could use this solution with every position if need it.
Defenders – I agree with Bryn they're increasing too quickly now.
Midfielders - Progressing at a steady rate now
Forwards - Progressing at a steady rate now
Youth Bonus – I don’t think that need any changes, it is make the manager think about investing in the youth and force them to playing them in the main team
League Size the only thing we can do about that is make it two Div or keep it as is it
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Post by bigdan on Jul 19, 2012 20:27:57 GMT
Right chaps I thought we could do with some hard stats. So I've looked at the Elite winners and runners up across the seasons (missing a few out to save time) and worked out the average skill in St, Tk, Ps and Sh for the best 442. Over the years, DFs and FWs have increased at very similar rates - about 0.6 per season. Interestingly, MFs are increasing at about 0.9 per season. And keepers are increasing at about 1.5 per season, nearly three times the rate of FWs. Not sure the same trend would be followed throughout all divisions, but this is a start! Attachments:
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Post by Ahmed@Real on Jul 19, 2012 20:44:53 GMT
Right chaps I thought we could do with some hard stats. So I've looked at the Elite winners and runners up across the seasons (missing a few out to save time) and worked out the average skill in St, Tk, Ps and Sh for the best 442. Over the years, DFs and FWs have increased at very similar rates - about 0.6 per season. Interestingly, MFs are increasing at about 0.9 per season. And keepers are increasing at about 1.5 per season, nearly three times the rate of FWs. Not sure the same trend would be followed throughout all divisions, but this is a start! well done, we need to think in this way before we make any changes, not Reduce all keepers or take the players off, need something logic and fair to improve the game, that if we had problem
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Post by bigdan on Jul 19, 2012 20:50:34 GMT
Keepers - I think a combination of a fixed skill cap (e.g. 38) and reduce the abs awarded. So some keepers will still progress young and they will command a premium price, but they will never get good enough to ruin the game.
T tactic - as others have said, this gives an advantage to those who are lucky enough to play against the T tactic. Prefer 442N with zero abs, and financial (2M?) or points (1 pt?) penalty for the offender.
FA Cup seeding - would prefer seeding based on say last 5 years FA Cup performance, so teams can build their seeding over several years and are rewarded for effort in the cup.
Attendances - I think they are OK at present - if this is a euro super league, even the teams at the bottom will get crowds of 50-60K - but if everyone builds 150K seaters and they are all full it will become silly. So lower divisions should be capped at around the same levels as present. You could have a fan base figure for each team which varies gradually over the seasons depending on success.
Loans - 3 in/out. To have more out gives an advantage to the stronger teams.
Player progression - see my graphs. If I have time I will write a program to go through every team for every season and we'll really see what the progression rate really is!
Youth bonus - scrap it for keepers?
Abs loss with old age is a good idea.
Not a bad idea giving div 2 and 3 more scouts. Also could just increase the sponsorship or prize levels in these divs.
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Post by tone on Jul 19, 2012 21:51:41 GMT
weather my opinion counts or not here is my opinion on a few things on forum so for
Lower attendances? i do think this should stay the same as why would people plow money into the stadium when they are not getting full attendance. if you do this anyway i think you should lower wages also, as if you reduce gate money some team would not afford the wage bill and will end up in the red and end up with sh*t players and the gap between the divisions would get bigger
Goalkeepers i do believe that keepers should be capped to 35 for at least 5 seasons, and to be reviewed after that regardless of age. short term i do think all keepers should be rolled back at least 3 abs
outfield players i think this should remain the same as i think out field players are gaining at a good rate. some people think some strikers are gaining slower than the rest, this is because of the keeper situation, sort that and the rest will fall into place
T tactic this one is a hard one, it punishes the team for not putting in a sheet, but on the other hand it is helping the team that follows on the fixture list to gain advantage as the fitness will be lower. what i think is play the team as a normal tactic, looking over previous fixtures with t tactic the fitness seams to reduce a lot compared to normal tactic. options play the game so the team that sheets gain the abs while the team that doesn't looses any abs(happening now) but also forfeits the 3 points or fined.
FA Cup Seeding this should be done based on the previous seasons league position
loans 3 in 3 out that's it
reserve bonus abs i do think the youth bonus should stop after the players reaches certain skill level say 22/23 regardless of age, as this was done for H_Lloris which would stop players being super players
what i would like to see
youth academy,at present you have choices to put your money into the stadium/scouts/ transfers. extra option to buy up to 3 young players instead of scouts under the ages of 16 years old to put into the academy once they reach say 18 they can be moved into the reserve league or first team, but first you would have to buy this, the more money you put into it the higher the rating of you academy up to five star(amount to be discussed). how it would work is as follows every point that is picked up during the season (league, cup and reserves) you would gain 10 abs also the extra abs that a player picks up at the end of the season, (key passes etc )would not go on that player it would go onto the academy bank(if you wish) to be used for the players of your choice throughout the season or you can save them till end of season max 1000 abs per player per season, also cash donations can be used on these
reserve cup competition(please) to prevent players being used for both team you can cup tie your player by using symbols like * and ^ after they name so you can not use your best players in the reserve cup if you main team gets knocked out. to determine which players play in the first team at the start of the season all managers should name cup squads for both reserves and first team (wanted this for a few seasons)
would also like to see the same format for reserves as the first team on the web page as i would like to see the best 5 goals /assists/saves/ mom etc of the reserves as i don't think you get a full picture of this as you just see that weeks report and league table, also this would boost sales of reserve players as you can see the way they preform(wanted this for a few season)
and finally home page i do think that the main page looks boring and to boost interest we need to revamp this you could have a few more items on it comment
could have something like ismfa top transfer, top scorer out of all divisions etc don't want it to be the same as ismfa but i do think we should do something
sorry for going on a bit and hope you understand what im trying to get at. please dont just shoot it down think about it, would it help/improve the game or not comments please
cheers tone
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neil
1st Team Regular
Honours: Div 3 Champions (S14 - Chelsea, S18 - Lyon)
Posts: 557
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Post by neil on Jul 19, 2012 22:31:55 GMT
I am only just coming to the end of my first season in EFL so i realise that i have very little experience in comparison to most of you...but thought i'd add my opinions anyway.
Goalkeepers: I could only dream of having such players but i can see that some keepers are going to be incredible eventually. Also loving the effort of checking the stats and making the graph. Clearly keepers are progressing far quicker than any other position. I don't know enough about the stats to suggest an answer but would be in favour of some sort of action.
T Tactic: I agree that it can be unfair for some teams to get a potentially easy victory and then someone else has to face a full strength team. Financial and ability penalties seem a good way forward. In reality, if a manager goes missing for a game the whole team doesn't collapse so potentially more realistic as well.
Attendances: Again difficult for me to say as Stamford Bridge is a pathetic little ground in comparison to most so i would expect a sell-out every week. Certainly a team with a big ground who gets relegated should not be getting sell-outs and a team who gets promoted should.
Divisions: Personally i disagree with changing the league system. 2 large divisions would put the top team in div 2 in the same league as the bottom of div 3 which by a quick look at squads would be a bit harsh. Also mid-table sides could end up finishing mid-table season after season whereas with smaller divisions there is added excitement that a mid-level team can have a particularly good season and get an unexpected promotion (my own season springs to mind).
Loans: I have profited by the loaning in of players this season but a limit of 3in, 3out does seem fair.
As i say, not much knowledge in comparison to most on here but hope it adds to the discussion.
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Post by Malky(Admin) on Jul 20, 2012 6:18:01 GMT
Thanks for all the responses guys keep it going! The non sheeting issue is a big pain for me, if you say non sheeting managers should just play 442N then there is still a very good chance they will win the game as N has no bonus advantage and its just down to squad strengths! Ie if it was Munch or Inter etc they would probably beat you! So in one hand its like saying its ok not to sheet as you won't really get punished that much, you might even win the match! On the other hand I hate the T tactic, say RVN plays against a T tactic 3 times over the season, he may have 15 shots at goal in each game giving him 45 shots and well on the way to winning the top shots award, and gaining another 200 abs end of season, now you can't take that off RVN cause he's done nothing wrong! There is rules in place now that the non sheeting team get all there match abs taken off but the team there playing against are gaining a hell of a lot playing against them, its hard because I know life hits us with problems and sometimes managers can't sheet at the last min so punishing them too much might be harsh, but again we have a whole week most of the time to submit a teamsheet!
Everyone also has my mobile number, god I should be on your speed dial by now! So if its a simple text email or note on the forum to say admin or anyone can you do me a teamsheet then you won't miss out! I've always believed if you want to play the game and you have a right interest in it you will sheet every week!
Its good to read a lot of the responses as on some of the topics a lot of managers are on the same line of thought! Again we need more thoughts! Let's try and encourage managers from Villa, Manchester Utd etc etc to join in as we never hear from everyone!
The problem with play offs! Some managers like them and other don't, I agree to a certain extent the leagues are too small for them as six teams can end up leaving the league each season but again some managers like the excitement of securing that spot! Again I'll decide pre season whether to keep them or not!
FA Cup seeding will defiantly be changed, either to last seasons league standings or last 3-5 years league record or previous 3-5 years FA Cup record
Keep it up lads
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Post by pezza @ Marseille on Jul 20, 2012 6:48:58 GMT
There are some things, eg changes to youth players bonus abs that should not be rushed in without at least a seasons notice as some managers have put alot of work into the youth system and should have time to adjust.
Keepers are just too high and the fairest way is to reduce all keepers rated 30 or above by 10%
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Post by Ahmed@Real on Jul 20, 2012 8:29:34 GMT
There are some things, eg changes to youth players bonus abs that should not be rushed in without at least a seasons notice as some managers have put alot of work into the youth system and should have time to adjust. Keepers are just too high and the fairest way is to reduce all keepers rated 30 or above by 10% I agree with Gazza to the first point, for example Ringers just change all the team to youth players because he plan for the future and I dont think we have a problem with the youths, Malky did add lots of rules in previous seasons and it is work fine now, I think we never have a super star again, so why we are worry. The second point (the keeper) again we can’t treat them individual, we just deduct 10% from the entire keepers and slow them down
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Post by johnraggett on Jul 20, 2012 9:35:39 GMT
I will comment in more detail, when I get a chance but I'm not convinced there is a problem with keepers now. Okay Cech is a beast but will be gone in 3 games but looking at the leagues I can't see a problem with goals being scored.
Okay Arsenal have only let in 3 but I think that's more to do with the tactics in that league, i.e. it's very tight and teams are happy to nick a 1-0.
What I would suggest to stop another beast being created, is that goalkeeper bonuses are dramatically reduced. So say they only get abs for a cleansheet, not sure how much.
I think the other positions are fine and the amendment to defenders brings them in line with the other positions. basically we need a formula that means all 4 positions pretty much progress at the same rate and think changing the keepers will do that.
Right I've said more than wanted to currently but I'll be back!!
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theo
1st Team Regular
Benfica
Posts: 741
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Post by theo on Jul 20, 2012 9:58:21 GMT
These are my thoughts:
T Tactic: How about the team plays 442N but no matter what the score is the nonsheeting team gets 0 points (as well as 0 abs). That way the team they are playing against still has a challenge and the non sheeting team doesnt get any reward.
FA Cup seedings: Should be based on last seasons league standings, looking at historical data is just overcomplicating things
Attendences: I dont think its a problem, any changes would be just penalising the small teams.. There is already the ticket price differences. If its felt adjustment is needed could tweak ticket prices instead?
Playoff spots: I think should be removed, just move to two up two down would be fine.
Old players: I think a better way to reflect age would be to have older players losing fitness mroe quickly in the games rather then taking abs off them
ABS for Defenders: I think defenders are growing too fast, although they dont get as much end of season bonus as other players they can quite easily get over 100 abs per game. I did a quick comparison a while ago and im pretty sure they are growing faster.. (although further investigation reqd)
Goalkeepers: I think reducing all keepers by a certain percentage is the best way to go. Reducing by a set amount, or for just a certain age, or setting a cap would penalise some teams more than others, wheras reducing by a percentage means all keepers would still be as good as they were before in relation to each other
Youth Academies: Dont like this idea at all, it just means the rich teams will have another way to get better as they will immediately buy the best type of academy available and the poorer teams wont be able to, creating a bigger divide.
Loans: 3 in 3 out max
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Post by winzor @ Porto on Jul 20, 2012 10:07:53 GMT
Keepers - I think a combination of a fixed skill cap (e.g. 38) and reduce the abs awarded. So some keepers will still progress young and they will command a premium price, but they will never get good enough to ruin the game. T tactic - as others have said, this gives an advantage to those who are lucky enough to play against the T tactic. Prefer 442N with zero abs, and financial (2M?) or points (1 pt?) penalty for the offender. FA Cup seeding - would prefer seeding based on say last 5 years FA Cup performance, so teams can build their seeding over several years and are rewarded for effort in the cup. Attendances - I think they are OK at present - if this is a euro super league, even the teams at the bottom will get crowds of 50-60K - but if everyone builds 150K seaters and they are all full it will become silly. So lower divisions should be capped at around the same levels as present. You could have a fan base figure for each team which varies gradually over the seasons depending on success. Loans - 3 in/out. To have more out gives an advantage to the stronger teams. Player progression - see my graphs. If I have time I will write a program to go through every team for every season and we'll really see what the progression rate really is! [glow=red,2,300]Youth bonus - scrap it for keepers?[/glow] Abs loss with old age is a good idea. Not a bad idea giving div 2 and 3 more scouts. Also could just increase the sponsorship or prize levels in these divs. wtf!!!!!!! you can not be serious? that would make it impossible to get a keeper from a young age surely? i have been trying hard to make my lad decent enough to be a first team keeper after he hits 22. its the bonus abs that is built him up not the abs gained during games which is next to nothing. as soon as they hit 27rtd and you have to play them in the first team they get well and truely raped anyway (specially in the top leagues) it would be suicide for me to play a 27rtd keeper in the Elite league when all the other managers have 35rtd. yet you need to at some point to keep them progressing at 27rtd. their is no keepers that i have seen coming through now that will be as good as the lads who were previously 'over enhanced by managers playing the system' and after the changes just made for keepers, we have not even given it time to work itself out. when Lloris was taken out of the game it was a case of what about the others just behind him. yeh he was miles ahead, but their was others which we have now decided to pick out. as it stands................ the better a player the more abs they gain, which means the best keep getting better, more so with keepers imo. we will end up at the stage in a minute where all managers who are not lucky enough to have 1 of these top keepers will be very very far behind the managers who do because we are punishing all keepers not really sorting out the situation short term. yes in 10-15 seasons we will have something sorted out as the top lads will be retired and the rest will be progressing similar. but thats a long time to wait aint it?
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Post by winzor @ Porto on Jul 20, 2012 10:19:24 GMT
as for others. strikers, mids and defenders are all progressing fairly tbh. maybe shave off 1 or 2 abs points per tackle, but for the youth lads its hard, as they only get bonus on tackles............ mids strikers get both pass/assist- shots/goals. and they make more passess-shots than defenders make tackles. maybe they could get the extra for clean sheets? attendances etc. is very good the way it is................... lower league teams really dont deserve to be punished and lose out on much needed cash when they already have the struggle of competing with the amout the top divisions gain over them. Personally i think this game is running very well at the moment. we will always need to make the odd tweak to sort things out, but i would hate to see any drastic changes. Malky you are doing a great job running this game, and im pretty sure everyone involved is enjoying the game as it is p.s. never thought about it before..................... but do agree with the playoff spots being scrapped due to league sizes. and i would not like the idea of just the 2 bigger leagues as the middle teams would get bored, its nicer to see more teams battling for something with the 4 leagues. my views anyway
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Post by Malky(Admin) on Jul 20, 2012 11:31:28 GMT
Its never going to be 2 big leagues, we only get around 2 seasons played per year and managers like the faster turnaround, so I'm not going to change league sizes, the general feeling so far is that play offs are a turn off so a decision will need to be made on that! At the moment I'm not worried about a skill 38 keeper playing, its been shown we can score goals, a lot of goals have been scored this season and IMO scores have been realistic!
As for saying take 10% off all keepers, your missing the point! There is a group of keepers that potentially will cause problems, because they are no where near retiring! What someone can do if they have time is take 2 divisions say elite and division one, see what the keepers were are the start of the season and see what they are now! IMO we fixed the keeper problem, just look at the match reports, keepers are gaining little if they play well and make saves, a bit more if they have clean sheets and in some cases lose abs when they concede! So there problem is fixed and we should see that for seasons to come, again the problem is with the keepers made before the changes, so to me its not about over the board its about individuals! Which means certain clubs, and with that comes people thinking its just them that's being punished, in truth it is but that's why I asked everyone to look at the bigger picture
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Post by garfy on Jul 20, 2012 13:56:56 GMT
Elite League
Bayern. Cech. 42.372 from 40.892 Santos. Jensen. 38.247 from 37.016 Madrid. Mulen. 38.176 from 37.505 Barca. Proto. 34.847 from 34.057 Valencia. Banks. 35.763 from 34.865 Inter. Green. 34.203 from 33.607 Ajax. Dudek. 36.466 from 35.742 Porto. Baia. 33.765 from 33.380
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