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Post by Andy @ schalke on Aug 25, 2021 10:42:20 GMT
I think there might be more engagement if it was a choice between solutions to the problems? Just a thought
1. T sheet problem
A - leave as is B - 3 nil forfeit C - 442N plus points docked /+ financial punishment
And so on?
Could be left open for suggestions . Pushed with the teamsheet emails. And then votes after that?
Silly idea maybe but can vktes be on the site instead od the forum? Could have a notification like you get with a transfer. Maybe too much work? Just that everyone uses the site but not everyone uses the forum
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Post by bruffio on Aug 25, 2021 11:49:25 GMT
i have 4 players there am i being picked on
just joking
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Post by pezza @ Marseille on Aug 25, 2021 13:56:37 GMT
Couple of points from somebody with some of these young superstars
I've sacraficed winning things to play them - i don't think its fair to reduce them in skill now...capping i can live with however - or if they get reduced then so does everybody else regardless of age (which doesnt solve the problem of them being better over time.)
There isn't a massive amount of these players on the game, so it is a huge problem to keep them as they are but cap them at say 40 rated as Malky suggests?
What you do with new players and current youths under the threshold is a tricky one, but again should these be devalued? And if so how do you compensate teams like Marseille, Barcelona, Man City, Osasuna etc. who have made these players the focus of their activity...especially when its seasons and seasons of sacrificing winning things in order to play them....now they are getting to the top of their game should we really start to take away the efforts these teams have put in and the advantages they have gained long term by sacraficing short term?
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Post by pezza @ Marseille on Aug 25, 2021 13:57:47 GMT
And i assume any changes will come in after this seasons re-rates but before donations?
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Post by Andy @ schalke on Aug 25, 2021 14:30:28 GMT
A cap is maybe more realistic too as the best players dont just keep getting better. Maybe the abs redistribution idea cld kick in once the cap hits? However that wld look.
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Pierre
Youth Player
Posts: 236
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Post by Pierre on Aug 26, 2021 16:01:03 GMT
I'm curious about some possible changes. Malky, do you know how it goes from this point? Do you have enough input from us to make decisions? Or do we get a change to vote or something like that?
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Post by Malky(Admin) on Aug 26, 2021 17:41:45 GMT
I'm going to look over the discussion this weekend and think about a few things, I'll then outline my thoughts and then more discussion before the end of the season
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Post by Steve Brown on Aug 26, 2021 20:07:24 GMT
If T sheet is replaced by 442N then I don’t believe any forfeit or points reduction is a true reflection. I think the result is as it is and if the Non sheet wins then so be it.
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Post by Malky(Admin) on Aug 26, 2021 20:17:44 GMT
If T sheet is replaced by 442N then I don’t believe any forfeit or points reduction is a true reflection. I think the result is as it is and if the Non sheet wins then so be it. What's the point in sheeting then, managers who make an effort get beat from a manager who has 3 or 4 days to put in a 5min teamsheet
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Post by Andy @ schalke on Aug 26, 2021 20:46:11 GMT
If T sheet is replaced by 442N then I don’t believe any forfeit or points reduction is a true reflection. I think the result is as it is and if the Non sheet wins then so be it. Yeah there needs to be a consequence. U cant get points for not sheeting. But the result males it fairer for the other teams in the league.
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Pierre
Youth Player
Posts: 236
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Post by Pierre on Aug 28, 2021 11:51:39 GMT
Looking back at a nice chat yesterday, although sometimes it was hard to follow because to many comments mixed up. What did we talk about (if somebody remembered more, just add it to this topic)? - capping the skills of players, for example at 40 or 45. Is this for every position or just the forwards? - EOS bonuses for U21 players. Keep this or change something? - Scouts gives us to many good players at the moment. How do we change that?
My view of it? All the possible changes has one goal: a beautiful game for now and in the future with 36 involved and active managers.
To have that you’ll have to look at: A- and active community with lots of communication and options at the site and possible a forum B- a change for every manager to get succes/results, although this hasn’t to be easy. With succes I don’t only mean winning the league or cups, but also change of getting a good player signed for the club or getting an unexpected win or something like that.
A-an active community The most activity in the game has something to do with transfers/signing new players or communication/banter etc with eachother. With the new scouting system the transfer activity has decreased, because now managers could wait until the EOS and scout some new players.If you scout them yourself, it’s ok, but if you have some bad luck, you could always look at the auction list because plenty of non-signed scouted players are there. How can we change this? We could change the age of scouted players to let’s say only U21. With this decision you couldn’t wait for the EOS and scouted players to improve your squad, but have to deal with other managers. To ensure we will still have some quality players input in the game, we could do an auction of a foreign player every week or every other week. With this feature we get some more activity with every auction thoughout the season. Another adjustment of the scouts could be another range of skills of the players. Instead of many good quality players the skills are decreasing and you will have very lucky if you scout a suitable player. Now many scouted players are playable in many squads. For example, in my best line up at Villa I have 6/7 players I’ve scouted. For those players I don’t have to be active on the site or negotiating with other managers. In real life older players will decrease, but in EFL they don’t. If we implement this, we could get more transfer activity at the game. If you look at the forwards of Daniel at Marseille. Taliyah and Bergwijn are 22 and 21 years old. They are now 32 and 31 rated, although Bergwijn gets his bonus at the end of the season. Why would Daniel trade or sell those forwards? They are very good and will get better and better until they retire at afte rage 35. So Daniel don’t have to go on the transfer market for a new forward in the next 13 seasons. If players decrease from a certain age, lets say 30, Taliyah and Bergwijn are getting not good enough anymore for Marseille at a moment, but still very useable for a division 1 or 2 club, so more activity. At the other hand, I need to say if you don’t use rerates with older players they staying valuable, look at McGowan. To get more transferactivity we need to arrange something that encourage managers to make deals, like the example above. I don’t know if something like this is possible, but what if players aren’t gaining abs anymore after some seasons with the same club, like after 5 seasons of so. Players gaining abs normally in the first 5 seasons at a club, but after that they are getting bored with always the same exercises etc. and don’t gain abs anymore. It’s just a thought to get more transfer activity. Or you get some financial bonus or some abs you can distribute with every transfer you’ve made.
Another thing to get more activity is the communication. Now we have the site, we have the forum and the Whatsapp group. It’s devided, but also free to use or don’t use. I play another game (not ESMS) were there is a messageboard on the site. It’s 1 messageboard for everything, such as questions, matchreports, overviews, banter or some non-football things. For example, every friday some managers are telling everybody what they are going to do this weekend. Because everything is at 1 place, there is much activity. Looking at our forum we have many different topics, which isn’t good for the activity. If I’m busy I’m only at the match topic of Elite, because that’s were Villa plays at the moment. All the other comments I just don’t read. With that other game, you get participation bonus every week. Somebody will look at the comments/messages everybody has made that week (how many comments and how many words), which encourage managers to get involved in the discussion/messageboard. Let’s say active managers could earn a max of 1 million every week, this is a nice bonus which is easy to get and get more activity. With participation bonus you could also make other items more attractive. For example: a manager with team could make a weekly transfer analyse and personal view of all the transfers, could make an news article of all the games of a division, could interview other managers etc. B- a change for every manager to get succes/results To stay involved for all the playing managers there need some change to get succes. This not means every manager in EFL could win the Elite League in 2 or 3 seasons, but a change to get nice results in must be possible. The difference between the Elite League and the other divisions must not be to big. Now the number 6 of the Elite League, Ajax, has 9 30+ rated players and the number 6 of division 2, Sunderland, has only 1 30+ rated player. With 12 30+ rated players at the number 6 of division 1, Juventus. You can limited the difference if you decreasing the gained abs of older players. For example: 17 until 25 year….. 20 abs for a tackle 26 until 29 year….. 15 abs for a tackle 30 until 32 year….. 10 abs for a tackle 33 until 36 year….. 05 abs for a tackle (Numbers are just for the example)
So older players will still gain abs, but not so many anymore. It’s slightly different with my proposal of rerates above.
The big EOS bonuses at youth players gives us some very high talented players like Mbappe and Thanatos for example. If you have a high training academy with donations could get you at least 2.5 skill extra each season. For a 17 year old player is this 12.5 extra skillpoints. We could use the EOS bonuses different. You get a amount of abs, lets say 10,000 (higher training academy gets more abs) which you can distribute on your youth players (with all of caps and rules offcourse). You still are benefit a higher training academy, but not could create monsters anymore. It could also be an idea to give the EOS bonuses only to 17, 18 and 19 years old players. Or cap the skills for players which you want to donate on.
We are also discussing capping a skill yesterday. This could help the game, because the difference between the best players/clubs and the rest won’t be to big. A hard cap of 40 is possible, but also a hard cap of age + 10 could work, because players could grow with their age (so a 20 year old player is capped at 30, and a 25 is capped at 35). You could also make it age + 7 or what we want. We now have some players who are more skilled than age + 10 or age +7. To meet those managers, they get the abs backs which they can contribute on other (youth) players. If a 22 year old player has a 35.3 main skill, the 3.3 extra skill would be contributed to other players (or 6.3 extra skills if you choose age + 7).
At least I want to say that other ESMS games have the same problems. I know PbemFF have the same discussions and at FFO manager they have halved every skill of all the players to it stays playable. The one game I’ve played who haven’t had their discussion (If I’m right, because I don’t have played it very long) is SSL2001. They have a cap, but players are still gaining abs. For example, the cap is 32, so every player with higher skills play with skill 32. What is the purpose of still gaining abs? After 30 years, the players rerate every season. A 31 year old players loses 1 skill (31-30=1) of all his skills. The next season it will be 2 skills (32-30=2) etc.
If I look back it’s more reading than I expected. This is just my view and it are only ideas, nothing more and nothing less.
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Post by andieglen on Aug 28, 2021 13:36:45 GMT
T-Sheet.
No one ever knows if they are going to face a T-Sheet and sometimes it throws up some dodgy results, personally I think it should be a 1-0 default win. however a team with no manager should always play 4-4-2N regardless if they have a caretaker or not IMO
OLD PLAYERS.
Old players do not loose their skill they become more experienced players, so once they hit 30 years old cap their main skill but can gain in others to be a more rounded player until they retire.
YOUTH ACADEMY.
What's the point of having a youth academy if you can't develop youth from it, in other words the extra scouts should be youth only and the option to donate for youth shouldn't be an option. So if you want youth you either invest in the academy or trade for them.
SUPERSTARS.
We all should have the opportunity at some point to develop superstar players, however every time there has been a rule change in regards to youth and donations/abs, it goes t1ts up.
I like the idea of using past/present players as bench marks.
H_Lloris 23 fra 41 7 5 7 14 685 300 300 334 (took out of the game)
Luke_Shaw 36 eng 3 44 12 10 (estimated)
R_Tabata 35 arg 1 11 46 8 29 300 756 491 693
R_v_Nistelroy 35 hol 1 4 2 41 25 300 145 983
As soon as they go over 40 rated they have a massive impact on the game.
COMPENSATION.
If there is going to be any compensation for any player, i'm not sure how it can be done fairly? Not only would they need to be re-rated but aged as well! or do you remove them? or cap them? and then there's also the fact that managers have paid for them, invested in them and waisted a few seasons developing them as well.
I took Lloris out of the game as I thought it was best for the game to do so but didn't benefit from it really! And I bought in P_McGowan for Valencia as well to try and compete on all fronts and have P_Gazzaniga, K_Mbappe, P_B_E_Dybala.
I couldn't even think of a good compensation??
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Post by tone on Aug 31, 2021 20:07:54 GMT
Hard to keep up with what's going on. Conversations all over the place. You start a chat ive been back on 11 time and nothing else on there some posts on here a I suppose they will be some on watsap aswell make your mind up which one your using considering everyone want to get forum going. I have put my view on chat I am not doing it again
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Post by Dillon (OSA) on Sept 1, 2021 14:19:53 GMT
Hard to keep up with what's going on. Conversations all over the place. You start a chat ive been back on 11 time and nothing else on there some posts on here a I suppose they will be some on watsap aswell make your mind up which one your using considering everyone want to get forum going. I have put my view on chat I am not doing it again I think the chat room was just a one off and wasn't meant to be revisited. Was just a live chat where managers could go over certain issues so Malky could see where we stand on it and hear everyone out, so I'm not sure it'll have been checked beyond that night.
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Post by tone on Sept 1, 2021 18:18:59 GMT
You can still revisit anytime. Why start a chat and then go back to forum should just keep everything in one place
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