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Post by tone on Sept 1, 2021 18:19:45 GMT
You wonder why people don't say anything
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Post by Malky(Admin) on Sept 2, 2021 10:55:55 GMT
So again i will give you some thoughts about what i have been thinking about and you can give me some feedback
1. Away Goals scrapped going forward (Start of next season) draws will just go to extra time and or penalties as normal
2. Managers who don't sheet and they have errors ie suspended or injured players will play 442N using there 11 weakest players Agg8 IMO a T teamsheet creates unhealthy large stats which have been seen to alter the stats charts greatly, this is not the sheeting managers fault but stats and abs gained against T sheets are huge for a single game either that we increase the %skill drop of a T sheet from current 60% to 80%
3. Training Academies - changed to Youth Academies - we need to get back to finding and creating youth talent, the youth academy needs to have purpose, so we revamp the scout system, our scouts don't find first team players that's your job, our scouts find youth, so our scout missions be it level 0 = 3 scouts or level 4 = 7 scouts can only be used to scout age range 17-21
our level of youth academy will still give us an end of season bonus or x5 x9 x11 x13 and x15 depending if you have a level 0-4 but this will bring back managers dealing with each other for first team players and the money will filter through the divisions again enabling 'smaller' clubs to invest in bigger academies and stadium increases, we need the money to stay in the game rather than most going out via expensive first team player purchases
now within this 17-21 age rage it will still be random to which you can expect
age17 - main skill 16,17,18,19,20 (probably the best age range to get as 5 seasons to work with) age18 - main skill 17,18,19,20,21 age19 - main skill 18,19,20,21,22 age20 - main skill 19,20,21,22,23 age21 - main skill 20,21,22,23,24
2nd and 3rd skills will increase or decrease value, so DM and AM will be more expensive as better flexibility
4. Donations - options will stay the same around abs,scouts or cash but abs awarded to players will be reduced from the ridiculous 10 between age and skill to the original 3 for players 17-21
5. skill caps - Keepers remain at 39 and Forwards are added to this list at skill 40, defenders and midfielders to carry on for now as not seeing the same influence in results as the other two positions
i have read all the comments about compensation etc once they hit that skill cap but keepers have been skill capped from around season 15 with no compensations on all the years they have not improved, managers have just accepted they have the best keeper in the game for seasons and seasons to come, i will continue to monitor the other positions if i feel they are having too much of an effect on games
R_Tabata played till he was a skill 46 and during that season he made 123 passes and 6 assists with 1 goal and maybe more surprisingly on got 1 MOM award
again i think it all comes down to the club these players play with and how successful they are each season, take Erling_Haland for example on loan from Bayern Munich to Atletico Madrid this season age21 skill 27 forward has only gained 321 abs on shooting this season as Madrid sit 9th at another club finishing 1st with good cup runs he may well have increases a skill
So plenty to continue to chat about so lets hear your opinions
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Post by Andy @ schalke on Sept 2, 2021 11:16:45 GMT
Maybe the cap for the reserve team could be higher so people can train youths to first team level. Noone can realistically start a 25 rater. Could have an age limit on the reserves too tho so there has to be development. Maybe if more scouts were youths that would feed in to this.
Like if ur player is 27 rated or 27 years old whatever comes first.
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Post by Malky(Admin) on Sept 2, 2021 11:21:29 GMT
Maybe the cap for the reserve team could be higher so people can train youths to first team level. Noone can realistically start a 25 rater. Could have an age limit on the reserves too tho so there has to be development. Maybe if more scouts were youths that would feed in to this. Like if ur player is 27 rated or 27 years old whatever comes first. Marseille have been playing a skill 25 midfielder in his starting main 11 this season who has had 48 kps, his 31 and 33 skilled midfielders have had 32 & 44 kps so lesser skilled players are performing better at some clubs and gain more abs per season
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Post by Andy @ schalke on Sept 2, 2021 11:24:30 GMT
What age is he? It seems like a 21y 25 rater performs better than a 27y 25 rater. Thats prob more of a perception than a fact tho? They also get eos on any abs gained so it can be justified more easily. And it's only really possible to play 1 or 2.
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Pierre
Youth Player
Posts: 236
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Post by Pierre on Sept 2, 2021 16:33:33 GMT
Maybe the cap for the reserve team could be higher so people can train youths to first team level. Noone can realistically start a 25 rater. Could have an age limit on the reserves too tho so there has to be development. Maybe if more scouts were youths that would feed in to this. Like if ur player is 27 rated or 27 years old whatever comes first. I don't know if this is neccesary. Now the difference between skill 25 and the average skill in the first squad is big, but that is because now we can buy many good quality players through scouting. Since I play EFL, you have always could buy those good senior players and in the last seasons they even becomes better. In the new system that's not the case (you could only scout youth players), so more managers needs to play more lower skilled (youth) players. I think the cap gives us more managerchoices to make. "What do you do when great youth prospects has got a 25 skill? Sell or play? What do you choose, an old retiring 30 rated MF or a very young 25 rated MF?" If you make the cap higher, you don't have to make those decisions. You just have to wait until the youth players are capped in the reserve team and play them in the first squad.
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Post by Andy @ schalke on Sept 2, 2021 17:39:18 GMT
Theres a fair number of 25 raters who just get scrapheaped though. 25yr 25 rate 26yr 25 rate because noone will spend the time On them because they arent likely to be great. And then there are 35yr 20 rate players playing in reserves. Just seems nuts. How many very young 25 raters are there that we're getting to make that choice on too.
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Post by Dillon (OSA) on Sept 2, 2021 19:56:04 GMT
Theres a fair number of 25 raters who just get scrapheaped though. 25yr 25 rate 26yr 25 rate because noone will spend the time On them because they arent likely to be great. And then there are 35yr 20 rate players playing in reserves. Just seems nuts. How many very young 25 raters are there that we're getting to make that choice on too. I think that's a necessary thing for the game though, some players need to fail. If every player made it as a success then the game would be flooded with players and we have no need to make deals. A majority of players like this become reserve fodder or are released and removed from the game at the end of the season. Managers can play 25/25s 26/25s and they'll be successful enough if they persist in having them as first team regulars. A lot of clubs have found this niche in developing players stuck in the middle where bigger sides decided they'll never be worthwhile developing so will let go for cheap. Dortmund are one of the best teams at this and took unwanted players like Reiziger and Height and turned them into very strong first team players they could sell on for 10x what they paid. Increasing the reserve cap and making all these things easier upsets the balance of the game and suddenly makes it too easy to obtain players. You'd mentioned no one can realistically start a 25 rated player, but that's the dilemma clubs should face in trying to develop these players. It's the reason smaller clubs are able to demand big sums for loans in as well.
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Post by Dillon (OSA) on Sept 2, 2021 20:16:54 GMT
So again i will give you some thoughts about what i have been thinking about and you can give me some feedback 1. Away Goals scrapped going forward (Start of next season) draws will just go to extra time and or penalties as normal 2. Managers who don't sheet and they have errors ie suspended or injured players will play 442N using there 11 weakest players Agg8 IMO a T teamsheet creates unhealthy large stats which have been seen to alter the stats charts greatly, this is not the sheeting managers fault but stats and abs gained against T sheets are huge for a single game either that we increase the %skill drop of a T sheet from current 60% to 80% 3. Training Academies - changed to Youth Academies - we need to get back to finding and creating youth talent, the youth academy needs to have purpose, so we revamp the scout system, our scouts don't find first team players that's your job, our scouts find youth, so our scout missions be it level 0 = 3 scouts or level 4 = 7 scouts can only be used to scout age range 17-21 our level of youth academy will still give us an end of season bonus or x5 x9 x11 x13 and x15 depending if you have a level 0-4 but this will bring back managers dealing with each other for first team players and the money will filter through the divisions again enabling 'smaller' clubs to invest in bigger academies and stadium increases, we need the money to stay in the game rather than most going out via expensive first team player purchases now within this 17-21 age rage it will still be random to which you can expect age17 - main skill 16,17,18,19,20 (probably the best age range to get as 5 seasons to work with) age18 - main skill 17,18,19,20,21 age19 - main skill 18,19,20,21,22 age20 - main skill 19,20,21,22,23 age21 - main skill 20,21,22,23,24 2nd and 3rd skills will increase or decrease value, so DM and AM will be more expensive as better flexibility 4. Donations - options will stay the same around abs,scouts or cash but abs awarded to players will be reduced from the ridiculous 10 between age and skill to the original 3 for players 17-21 5. skill caps - Keepers remain at 39 and Forwards are added to this list at skill 40, defenders and midfielders to carry on for now as not seeing the same influence in results as the other two positions i have read all the comments about compensation etc once they hit that skill cap but keepers have been skill capped from around season 15 with no compensations on all the years they have not improved, managers have just accepted they have the best keeper in the game for seasons and seasons to come, i will continue to monitor the other positions if i feel they are having too much of an effect on games R_Tabata played till he was a skill 46 and during that season he made 123 passes and 6 assists with 1 goal and maybe more surprisingly on got 1 MOM award again i think it all comes down to the club these players play with and how successful they are each season, take Erling_Haland for example on loan from Bayern Munich to Atletico Madrid this season age21 skill 27 forward has only gained 321 abs on shooting this season as Madrid sit 9th at another club finishing 1st with good cup runs he may well have increases a skill So plenty to continue to chat about so lets hear your opinions 1. 100% agree with away goals scrapped in order to keep the game realistic and in line with real life 2. 80% drop seems like a decent idea, either suggestion likely works to be fair as T sheets tend to be very rare anyway, 2 or 3 a season I think? In 1st team cases anyway 3. I like the idea of re-gearing this to be more focused on finding talent, and also about finding 1st team players being the job of managers to do rather than being hand fed them as scouts. Although it may be worth strengthening the older options, possibly being better rated or those having higher guaranteed secondaries than the younger ones as the way I can see that going is that people only ever scout 17 year olds and nothing else. Possibly a need for a randomising of the age between 17-21 on scouts? An idea could be more variety of choice the higher rated your academy is, for example Level 0 you get 3 scouts, all completely random (position, age, etc). Level 1 gets you choice of position GK, DF, MF, FW. Level 2 gets you choice of age 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 and Level 4 gets you further position choices GK, DF, DM, MF, AM, FW. Helps make it a more attractive proposition for teams with real benefit other than just abs to show for it, it'll have real utility within the game. Maybe making it possibly to pull a 21/26 21/27 rated player in very rare circumstances can make the gamble of 19/20/21 year old scouts more worth it and have a choice of scouts to think about. 3b. I wanted to raise a point about the current meta of goalkeepers being scouted and how these changes will effect the game massively as well. Currently the way most sides can get a GK is through at best scouting 30 35s or something, most end up with 33 32s etc. It may be worth addressing this while we're on the issue of scouts. Do we go back to having to develop keepers from youth again or do we continue this as it's a different issue from first team outfield scouts? 4. Donations I 100% agree with again, seems like a sensible range you've suggested in order to bring it back into order. 5. If we're going skill caps, can we at least cap them to the previous highest rated player in that position rather than locking off that part of the game's history to be unobtainable again? In this case I think it would mean a 41.999 (or 983) cap for FWs. I feel as though it'd be a nice homage to the game's history to keep these milestones. Skill caps seem to be the best current way to manage the game so is the most sensible action for us to take. Compensation probably isn't necessary but could be worth adding a small bit of extra 'sponsorship' income to the clubs that have a player maxed out, just as a status effect of having a 'legendary' player who elevates the prestige of the club. Even an extra 2 or 3 million per season.
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Post by Andy @ schalke on Sept 2, 2021 20:26:12 GMT
Maybe im just struggling to see it. If we're going to stop the scouts from returning good players and make them only youth players we need to be able to develop a lot of them. Or is everyone going to be playing squads with a lower average skill in the future? It seems to address the unfairness of the academies not giving a great advantage by making them the only one available.
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Post by Dillon (OSA) on Sept 2, 2021 20:41:29 GMT
Maybe im just struggling to see it. If we're going to stop the scouts from returning good players and make them only youth players we need to be able to develop a lot of them. Or is everyone going to be playing squads with a lower average skill in the future? It seems to address the unfairness of the academies not giving a great advantage by making them the only one available. First team scouts are a fairly new thing in the game anyway, so I think these changes will see the game to return to the way it was before. I think they came into the game about 2015/16? (A while ago but recent in terms of how long this has been running lol). After they were introduced we had to increase the reserve skill cap from 23 to 25 and a lot of the average rating was inflated at that point. If this is in place long enough I can see it making the average rating drop, or at very least stay where it is now for a bit. That's not exactly a bad thing though, I think it'll do a lot to slow the speed of the game and keep it in a place where it isn't constantly growing at such a fast speed. Average rating used to be 25/26 and 28 used to be high rated first teamers, within 4 or 5 seasons it jumped to 33+. Hopefully these changes will catch it and bit and help slow down the progress before the game is left with some clubs left way too far behind. It'll just require managers getting out there, being active and making deals. Pre-season should be really interesting if we do go with these changes, hopefully loads of deals The market will likely see a big change and players that are 23yo 25rated will suddenly spike in value as their long term prospects change a lot.
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Post by Andy @ schalke on Sept 2, 2021 22:10:43 GMT
That makes a lot of sense then. I've just never known it any other way. If the skill cap Is going to increase by 2 every 5 years it becomes unsustainable.
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Post by Malky(Admin) on Sept 3, 2021 8:03:04 GMT
So again i will give you some thoughts about what i have been thinking about and you can give me some feedback 1. Away Goals scrapped going forward (Start of next season) draws will just go to extra time and or penalties as normal 2. Managers who don't sheet and they have errors ie suspended or injured players will play 442N using there 11 weakest players Agg8 IMO a T teamsheet creates unhealthy large stats which have been seen to alter the stats charts greatly, this is not the sheeting managers fault but stats and abs gained against T sheets are huge for a single game either that we increase the %skill drop of a T sheet from current 60% to 80% 3. Training Academies - changed to Youth Academies - we need to get back to finding and creating youth talent, the youth academy needs to have purpose, so we revamp the scout system, our scouts don't find first team players that's your job, our scouts find youth, so our scout missions be it level 0 = 3 scouts or level 4 = 7 scouts can only be used to scout age range 17-21 our level of youth academy will still give us an end of season bonus or x5 x9 x11 x13 and x15 depending if you have a level 0-4 but this will bring back managers dealing with each other for first team players and the money will filter through the divisions again enabling 'smaller' clubs to invest in bigger academies and stadium increases, we need the money to stay in the game rather than most going out via expensive first team player purchases now within this 17-21 age rage it will still be random to which you can expect age17 - main skill 16,17,18,19,20 (probably the best age range to get as 5 seasons to work with) age18 - main skill 17,18,19,20,21 age19 - main skill 18,19,20,21,22 age20 - main skill 19,20,21,22,23 age21 - main skill 20,21,22,23,24 2nd and 3rd skills will increase or decrease value, so DM and AM will be more expensive as better flexibility 4. Donations - options will stay the same around abs,scouts or cash but abs awarded to players will be reduced from the ridiculous 10 between age and skill to the original 3 for players 17-21 5. skill caps - Keepers remain at 39 and Forwards are added to this list at skill 40, defenders and midfielders to carry on for now as not seeing the same influence in results as the other two positions i have read all the comments about compensation etc once they hit that skill cap but keepers have been skill capped from around season 15 with no compensations on all the years they have not improved, managers have just accepted they have the best keeper in the game for seasons and seasons to come, i will continue to monitor the other positions if i feel they are having too much of an effect on games R_Tabata played till he was a skill 46 and during that season he made 123 passes and 6 assists with 1 goal and maybe more surprisingly on got 1 MOM award again i think it all comes down to the club these players play with and how successful they are each season, take Erling_Haland for example on loan from Bayern Munich to Atletico Madrid this season age21 skill 27 forward has only gained 321 abs on shooting this season as Madrid sit 9th at another club finishing 1st with good cup runs he may well have increases a skill So plenty to continue to chat about so lets hear your opinions 1. 100% agree with away goals scrapped in order to keep the game realistic and in line with real life 2. 80% drop seems like a decent idea, either suggestion likely works to be fair as T sheets tend to be very rare anyway, 2 or 3 a season I think? In 1st team cases anyway 3. I like the idea of re-gearing this to be more focused on finding talent, and also about finding 1st team players being the job of managers to do rather than being hand fed them as scouts. Although it may be worth strengthening the older options, possibly being better rated or those having higher guaranteed secondaries than the younger ones as the way I can see that going is that people only ever scout 17 year olds and nothing else. Possibly a need for a randomising of the age between 17-21 on scouts? An idea could be more variety of choice the higher rated your academy is, for example Level 0 you get 3 scouts, all completely random (position, age, etc). Level 1 gets you choice of position GK, DF, MF, FW. Level 2 gets you choice of age 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 and Level 4 gets you further position choices GK, DF, DM, MF, AM, FW. Helps make it a more attractive proposition for teams with real benefit other than just abs to show for it, it'll have real utility within the game. Maybe making it possibly to pull a 21/26 21/27 rated player in very rare circumstances can make the gamble of 19/20/21 year old scouts more worth it and have a choice of scouts to think about. 3b. I wanted to raise a point about the current meta of goalkeepers being scouted and how these changes will effect the game massively as well. Currently the way most sides can get a GK is through at best scouting 30 35s or something, most end up with 33 32s etc. It may be worth addressing this while we're on the issue of scouts. Do we go back to having to develop keepers from youth again or do we continue this as it's a different issue from first team outfield scouts? 4. Donations I 100% agree with again, seems like a sensible range you've suggested in order to bring it back into order. 5. If we're going skill caps, can we at least cap them to the previous highest rated player in that position rather than locking off that part of the game's history to be unobtainable again? In this case I think it would mean a 41.999 (or 983) cap for FWs. I feel as though it'd be a nice homage to the game's history to keep these milestones. Skill caps seem to be the best current way to manage the game so is the most sensible action for us to take. Compensation probably isn't necessary but could be worth adding a small bit of extra 'sponsorship' income to the clubs that have a player maxed out, just as a status effect of having a 'legendary' player who elevates the prestige of the club. Even an extra 2 or 3 million per season. Dillion the 17-21 scout would be random, i was just giving an example of what to expect if you scouted a 17 year old from that range, before if anyone got a 17 year old skill 20 that was a great scout, so again it will be down to the luck of the draw, you could also get a 21 year old skill 24 but would only have 1 season of bonuses left
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Post by andieglen on Sept 5, 2021 12:47:55 GMT
1. Away Goals scrapped going forward (Start of next season) draws will just go to extra time and or penalties as normal agreed prevents any possible fixture congestion.
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Post by andieglen on Sept 5, 2021 12:50:02 GMT
2. Managers who don't sheet and they have errors ie suspended or injured players will play 442N using there 11 weakest players Agg8 IMO a T teamsheet creates unhealthy large stats which have been seen to alter the stats charts greatly, this is not the sheeting managers fault but stats and abs gained against T sheets are huge for a single game either that we increase the %skill drop of a T sheet from current 60% to 80% Don't know why? but always thought it was 80%! Did it change?
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